Denise Pike on How to Be Successful in Your Job Search and Application (#010)

A professional CV and LinkedIn profile are more important than ever. As the lock down starts to lift and businesses get up and running again, the job market will come back to life. Unfortunately, not all businesses will have survived these challenging times meaning there is likely to be more people seeking employment than ever before. It is therefore essential you give yourself the best possible chance of success from the start in a highly competitive market.

We spoke with Denise Pike from The CV Clinic about how she can help give you the best chance possible and some top tips for if you're currently planning on applying for a new role now.

How will you stand out in a competitive job market?

We recommend seeking the guidance and support of a professional CV writer such as Denise and The CV Clinic to ensure you can successfully navigate the automatic CV scanning software and show yourself in the best possible light. First impressions make all the difference so don't cut corners if you want that dream job!

Find out more about Denise and the services The CV Clinic provides at https://www.thecvclinic.co.uk/

Transcript

[00:00:00] David: [00:00:00] Denise, welcome to the pocket mastermind podcast. How are you?

[00:00:18] Denise: [00:00:18] Hello. I'm good. Thank you. How are you?

[00:00:21] David: [00:00:21] I'm really good. I'm really good. Um, so you're the founder of CV Clinic. Can you tell us a bit about what the CV Clinic does, the services you provide, and then we'll talk to you a bit about the career path that you took to getting to that point?

[00:00:36] Denise: [00:00:36] Yeah, sure. Okay. So, um, the CV clinic is a CV writing and interview coaching service. Um, but there are a number of different services that I provide really depending on the client's needs. Um, so I kind of have a, a client led approach, really. Um, first of all, I kind of really want to [00:01:00] understand what the client's career objectives were and then work with them to help them understand what they can be doing to improve.

[00:01:07] The CV or their LinkedIn profile or their interview technique in order to help them reach their goals and really present themselves in the best way possible to potential employer.

[00:01:18] David: [00:01:18] How did you get to starting the CV Clinic? What was the career path that you took that led you to identifying that as, as a business that you wanted to set up?

[00:01:32] Denise: [00:01:32] Yeah. So I, I kind of fell into recruitment about 10 years ago. Um, it's funny, I think most people who have a career in recruitment did fall into it. I don't think it's usually something people set out to do. Um. So I actually started my career as a paralegal. Um, I wanted to be a lawyer and then quite quickly realized that it was a lot of paperwork and not really much exciting stuff.

[00:01:56] Um, so I actually started, um, in recruitment about 10 years [00:02:00] ago when I started recruiting lawyers because I had kind of legal background. Um, so I went to work for, um, a recruitment agency for a couple of years. Um, I'm also really enjoyed recruitment. I really enjoyed, um, kind of dealing with candidates my day to day basis.

[00:02:18] What I didn't enjoy so much is the sales and business development side of things. Um, so, um, I stayed there for a couple of years and then decided actually I'd really like to go and work for an in house recruitment or talent acquisition team. Um, so that I'm not focusing on sales and business development, Im really just focusing on recruitment for one particular organization.

[00:02:39] Um, so then I moved to a company called Newton Europe who are, um, theyre operational improvement consultants. And I looked after their graduate recruitment scheme there that took me to various universities, um, and gave me a really good insight into graduate recruitment last summer. Actually, I was made [00:03:00] redundant.

[00:03:00] And so I kind of found myself a bit of the crossroads wondering what to do next. Um, and then I kind of made the decision that actually now I'd quite like to do something on my own. Um, so at that point I decided to do some consulting. Um, and actually had a really good project with, um, the guide dogs for the blind, um, you know, an amazing charity to work for.

[00:03:24] They had lots of improvement projects that they needed help with. Um, so I went and did that and it was amazing. Um, now, alongside doing all of that, I was helping people, kind of family, friends, friends or friends with their CVs, with interview techniques and, um, started to realize that that was something I really, really enjoyed.

[00:03:48] Um, kind of get a real buzz from helping people and them coming back to you and saying. Denise, thank you so much. After speaking to you, I've got an interview and you know, I realized, you know what, I really enjoy doing this. [00:04:00] Um, so why don't I do this full time, and that was kind of where the idea of the CV Clinic came about.

[00:04:07] Um, I think, how has it been about September last year. Um, and yeah, then it kind of took off from them and then I decided to go for it full time in January this year. Um, which. You know, unfortunately in a challenging time in the last couple of months but, you know, I'm really, really glad that I did take the plunge.

[00:04:29] Um, and it's been such a learning curve for me since then.

[00:04:32] David: [00:04:32] What's been the biggest things you've learned in setting up the business for yourself?

[00:04:37] Denise: [00:04:37] You know what, I talked myself out of it so many times. Um, you know, one day I would think it was the best idea ever, and the next day I'd be like, what am I doing?

[00:04:46] This is so stupid. Just going to get a job. Um. I think, um, in terms of what I've learned, I think kind of the things that go into the business and how much hard work it is in terms of [00:05:00] marketing and connecting yourself with all of those things. I think I was a bit naive, um, and probably just thought, well, you know, we'll start this business and people will just come to me and that's how it's going to work.

[00:05:10] And obviously that isn't how it works. Um, and when I first started, you know, I tried to set up my website, for example. Um, and quickly realized that that wasn't going to work either. So, um, got some help from, um, an amazing lady called Harriet Smith who helped me. She kind of talked me through branding and tone of voice.

[00:05:33] How I really wanted to portray the business. Um, so that was a really, good learning curve for me. And, you know, just having that support from her. Um, you know, she'd say, you know, this is a great idea, I think you're going to do really well. Um, you know, having that support from other people and talking through your ideas with other people, I think has been really important because otherwise I think I would have just talked myself out of it.

[00:05:56] David: [00:05:56] And what's the experience been like? Obviously with everything that's going on at the [00:06:00] moment and a lot of recruitment seems to have dried up, what's it experience for yourself, for your business, but also the clients that you are dealing with? What are kind of some of the themes and things that are going on at the moment?

[00:06:16] Denise: [00:06:16] Yeah. So, you know, things have definitely slowed down for me, but I am still getting inquiries from people. Um, and mainly what they're saying is that, you know, they're, they're applying for jobs. They're reaching out to recruiters, um, and unfortunately they're just not hearing anything back. Um. It's really challenging because obviously these are kind of, everyone keeps saying it unprecedented times, but, um, I think it would be difficult when you're, you know, you're putting yourself out there and people just aren't responding to your calls or responding to emails.

[00:06:51] I think that's really the number one frustration from people that I'm speaking to. Mmm. But also, I think there [00:07:00] is a lack of awareness in terms of the recruitment process and how that works. Um, so, um, you know, I talk a lot about applicant tracking systems and how they can really affect your chances of success of your CV, kind of getting through and being seen by it by a person.

[00:07:19] Um, but a lot of people that I speak to, they're not even aware that those systems exist. Um, so I think one of the things I'm trying to use this kind of downtime for is to really help people as much as I can. And, um, you know, just, just help people, let them know about the system, let them know what simple changes they can make to try and get ahead.

[00:07:42] Um, yeah. And things like that really.

[00:07:45] David: [00:07:45] Is that seem simple? Things like, um, the format of CVs I think is one thing that I learned a while ago was you. You think, Oh, I'm going to make this nice looking creative CV, but actually the tracking systems just throw those [00:08:00] things out straight away. They tend to be a bit more of a simple format to get through those those systems.

[00:08:05] I think a lot of people are encouraged to kind of like stand out from it on a CV and actually can end up being detrimental.

[00:08:12] Denise: [00:08:12] They can. Yeah. I mean it's, I think it's good to have two versions so you can have that kind of fancy pants, creative version, um, and where you have got contacts, well, you know, you're emailing your CV directly to a person, then that works really well when you're, when you're into a position online via a system, like you say, it just throws it off.

[00:08:34] Um, we as a recruiter. Just to kind of give you an example of how it, how it works as a recruiter. You'd come in in the morning, you'd look at your inbox and you'd have hundreds of applications to sift very, um, and when somebody has used a fancy format for a CV through to you, and it's kind of just gobbledygook, the information is in all the wrong boxes and you can't really make sense of it.

[00:09:00] [00:09:00] Um. When you're a recruiter kind of juggling 20, 30, sometimes 40 live roles, and you just haven't got time to deal with that and you'll just go onto the next one. Um, so, so yeah, I'm just really trying to help people kind of get over these hurdles, um, and just make them aware, because like I say, I think with most people, they're just not aware that this is the case.

[00:09:21] David: [00:09:21] What are some of the areas where people, the usual traps that people fall into with, with the CVS, that could be, you know, simply changed?

[00:09:32] Denise: [00:09:32] Yeah. So the formatting is a big one. The second one is kind of. Not tailoring their CV to the application, or to the role that they're applying to. So as well as kind of, um, having a straightforward format, um, what you also need to do is ensure you're including some of the keywords and phrases contained in the job ad that in your CV, because one of the other things the applicant tracking system will do is scan your CV. And if it doesn't [00:10:00] match with the key words or phrases that he's looking for, then it will just reject it. So that's another kind of quick win, um, that you can do to make sure you're not failing there. Um, another, another kind of, um, quite common theme is that people tend to write their CV in a task based way rather than a results based way.

[00:10:23] And I think what this can unfortunately do is really downplay your experience and make you come across as a lot less experienced than you actually are. Um, and as a recruiter or a potential employer, what you're really looking for is kind of evidence of what this person has achieved in the past because that's a really good indicator of what they can, um, what value they can add to your business.

[00:10:45] Um. And again, that's quite a simple change. It's just kind of looking at the way you're writing things and rewording them. Um, and just making sure that you're getting down some actual results rather than just talking about, you [00:11:00] know, I managed this, um, I was responsible for X, Y, Z. You know, it's just, it's not making me stand out.

[00:11:07] Um, it's not making the reader, um, kind of inspired by you. Um, yeah, just I think changing it to more results based rather than task based.

[00:11:18] David: [00:11:18] I think it doesn't come naturally for a lot of people. And I think working with someone like yourself helps you to draw. You turn that, you turn that task into a result.

[00:11:30] And I think something that people sat by him. So it sounds like, yeah, turn into an end result, but I think that's where working with somebody really does add a lot of value because you can then talk about, well, what did you act, what was it, what was it, give us a specific example. It's a bit like an interview kind of practice, I guess, in a way.

[00:11:48] And you're able to then put down something meaningful. And I know from being a hiring manager. It ends up being, it does end up being a job description almost. And you say, well, yeah, so [00:12:00] what? And I think that's where the real value comes in.

[00:12:03] Steve: [00:12:03] What's the sort of, what's the sort of process, um, when it comes to speaking to you? Do they send, they send you their current CV for you to first of all, take a look at, or is it a case of. Having a job you want to apply for and then speaking to you about that.

[00:12:19] Denise: [00:12:19] The circumstances are different. Um, so some people might come to me and they've got a very clear idea of the kind of job they want, and they'll come to me with jobs that they've applied for and jobs they want to apply for.

[00:12:31] Some people come to me and they really haven't got a clue. They just know that they're unhappy and they want to do something different. Um, and sometimes people come to me and they haven't actually got a CV because they've been in the same job for so long, or they found jobs by knowing people and have never needed a CV before.

[00:12:50] So it really does vary from person to person. So what I, what I usually like to do is have a consultation with them, um, which is [00:13:00] usually about about an hour. Um, and it's really just an opportunity to have a more of an in depth look at their career history. Um, what they achieved. And it's funny because, um, like Dave said, people often find it quite difficult to talk about their achievements.

[00:13:15] Um, I think a lot of people feel like they're bragging or, you know, um, showing off. But, um, you know, actually it's really important because the value that you add is what people want to see. Um, but a lot of the time people, um, you know, when I asked them about the career and the things they've achieved, they'll say, well, you know, I was just doing my job.

[00:13:35] So that was just part of my job. And they really downplay their achievements. Um, or I don't recognize when something wasn't achievement. Um, and just by talking to them and spending that time, asking them the right questions, that's how I kind of manage to draw, draw that out from them. And often when we talk about that, we'll get to the end and there'll be like, wow, I'm actually quite impressed with myself. I've achieved a lot.

[00:13:58] Steve: [00:13:58] Thats [00:14:00] a nice feeling.

[00:14:01] Denise: [00:14:01] Yeah, it is. Yeah, it's, it's really nice. And, and oftentimes those people who, you know, aren't sure what they want to go on and do next can clearly see where their strengths lie. Um, and it will make them think about what they really enjoyed doing throughout their career, what they're really good at. Um, and that kind of helps them, um, understand what it is that they wants to fill in and do next.

[00:14:23] David: [00:14:23] It's quite challenging and stressful. Time. Right? You know, trying to, a career change or even just a job change. Quite often people have been in a company for quite a long period of time, and the thought of leaving the known is, is scary. So having, having that support, and I think most so many people try and do all of this themselves and we're not great at everything and we have to accept that we're not great at everything.

[00:14:49] And one area, you know, you get an opportunity effectively. You know, one at first impression with your CV and then you get your first impression in person or over [00:15:00] the phone, and you got to kind of make that count. And I think it's a very wise investment to get some support through that process to ensure that you're more successful.

[00:15:09] Because you know, we're in this time now, we know that a lot of businesses are under threat and it's likely to be a more competitive market. And I think. If you want to increase your chances of success, then you know, utilizing support in that area is going to be critical.

[00:15:29] Denise: [00:15:29] Yeah, definitely. And you know, recruitment processes do change quite a lot over time as well.

[00:15:36] So it's kind of keeping up to date with, with that. Um, and also, you know, CVs are really subjective. What will turn one hiring manager on, will turn another one off. So, um, you know, but I think. Because I have worked in various organizations and various talent acquisition teams. Um, you know, I've got really good insight into what most people are looking for.

[00:15:57] Um, and you know, I just really didn't want [00:16:00] them to be able to pass that on.

[00:16:01] David: [00:16:01] Have you got any other, um, kind of top tips and any other advice for anybody who is thinking about maybe changing role at the moment?

[00:16:13] Denise: [00:16:13] Yeah. So, um, like we've said, you know, it's difficult. It's a difficult time for job seekers and I think now more than ever, it's going to be really important for them to stand out, but also I think to be more strategic in their job search as well.

[00:16:31] Um, so, you know, when you're, when you're looking for jobs, sometimes it can be really tempting to just get out there and apply for as many jobs as possible. But you know, it really is quality over quantity. Um, so I've got a kind of job search strategy, structured template that I share with people, um, which kind of asks them some questions and helps them create a plan in terms of, um, what type of role they're going to look for, which organisations they're [00:17:00] going to approach, and how they're going to approach them.

[00:17:02] Um, so, you know, when we are in a difficult market like this, you can't really just sit back and wait for the jobs to be advertised. You need to be a bit more creative in how you're going about that. So, um, definitely, you know, be more strategic. Um, and think about how you're going to target those companies that you want to work for.

[00:17:23] David: [00:17:23] Really thinking about what you want to do next or, or even further down the line that you're not just panic applying, which I think a lot of people do fall into that trap for sure.

[00:17:34] Denise: [00:17:34] I think they do. And and as, as a recruiter or a hiring manager, it will be really obvious to you when you're getting an application through, when you're getting CVs through, it will be really obvious which ones have been tailored and which ones have just been kind of. Um, have taken the scatter gun approach and applied for everything. Um, you know, it, it will be obvious. So you do need to take that time to really tailor your [00:18:00] application each time.

[00:18:01] David: [00:18:01] What about things? So one of my favorite topics is a personal statements because they used to be my favorite bit as the hiring manager, personal statements can be.

[00:18:12] Um, quite interesting. And. Well, have you got any advice for people regarding good practice when it comes to personal statements?

[00:18:21] Denise: [00:18:21] Yeah, sure. So there was quite a good conversation and one of my LinkedIn posts the other day where someone had said, um, would you, would you suggest writing this in the first person or third person?

[00:18:37] Um. Now I have to say, I think the third person is really odd, and I'd never recommend anybody to write in the third person. I just think it, you know, you're talking about yourself so. Um, it just sounds a bit weird. Um, but I actually prefer to take all the pronouns out, so you're not talking about I, you're not talking about me.

[00:18:57] You're not talking about him. You're just making a [00:19:00] statement. And I think that helps it be firstly more concise. Um, but also a bit more it comes across a bit more professional, um, and, um, remove all the pronouns and just avoid adding kind of empty words, empty buzzwords, because they really do mean nothing.

[00:19:22] You know, hiring managers and recruiters, they've seen it all before. They know what means something and what doesn't. Um, so if you're going to make a statement, you really need to back it up with something quantifiable. So, you know, how many pounds did you save? How much time did you say? Um, these real quantifiable examples of what, uh, what's it going to help you stand out?

[00:19:44] David: [00:19:44] What about, um. Cover letters? Is that, would you offer cover letter in most circumstances, even if it's not requested?

[00:19:55] Denise: [00:19:55] That's a good question, actually. So, um, I think a lot of, a lot of companies [00:20:00] are requesting them alongside applications. Um. But if they're not, I think it's always a good idea to, to, um, submit one because it just gives you that opportunity to talk in a bit more detail about you and what it is you're looking for and why you would be a good fit for that company and for that position.

[00:20:20] And that is what makes a really good cover letter. Um, you know, all this stuff that you can't get into your CV. Um. And, but again, this has to be really tailored. So, you need to talk about the company, why it interests, you know, why your values match the company values, what value you can add. Um, so yeah, I definitely think that it's a good idea to do that but it has to be done right.

[00:20:44] David: [00:20:44] Not some blanket. Elevator pitch about yourself. Yeah, you're right. It does need to be tailored because whoever's reading that wants to know that you put some time and effort because that's what they're going to hire you for, right. Is there [00:21:00] a, you know, are you, are you going to be dedicated? Are you going to be, um, someone they can rely on? Some of they can trust, someone that's engaged. If the first thing they see from you is generic. It's not going to do you a great service and there'll be somebody else who has just put that extra five minutes in is going to make a big difference.

[00:21:22] Denise: [00:21:22] Absolutely. Yeah. You just, you know, you want to just put in maximum effort every time. Otherwise it's just not worth doing because it will just make you look bad. It was just mentioned that lazy and they will just move on to the next application.

[00:21:36] Steve: [00:21:36] Somebody told me once that you should take the job description that's there and take, take those bullet points of the job description and then put that into a word document and then see if you can answer each one of them with experience that you've had, and then put that into your covering letter so you can say what you're asking for is this, and these are my [00:22:00] experiences of all those things. Is a good thing to do?

[00:22:04] Denise: [00:22:04] Yeah, definitely. So that, that's kind of the approach that I take when I'm writing covering letters. And what you really want to do is make sure that you're evidencing everything that they're looking for. Um, because if you're not, then they're just going to move on. So yeah, that's a, that's a really good way to do it.

[00:22:21] So, yeah, one of the other services that I offer is LinkedIn profile optimization. Um, and you know, LinkedIn is so important these days. And as a recruiter, it was kind of the number one tool that I would use every day. I would use it to search for candidates, um, and I, you know, if when I had applications come through, I would check out the candidates profile on LinkedIn.

[00:22:46] Um, it's really key that as an active job seeker. Even as a passive job seeker, that your LinkedIn profile is really representing you in the best way possible. Um, but also that you're kind of [00:23:00] optimizing it so that you're showing up in the relevant searches. Um, so that's, that's really key. So that's what if the other other services that I provide, um, and, um, you know, I think sometimes people don't, don't really appreciate the relevance of LinkedIn.

[00:23:15] Um, but it, again, it can really help you stand out. Um, from, um, from the competition. So it's really key.

[00:23:23] David: [00:23:23] Oh yeah. I mean, the first thing we always used to do hiring when applicants come then is you, you do a search through LinkedIn, Facebook, anything that's going to say, well, who's this person really? And does it match the CV that I've just received?

[00:23:39] Because, and you know, there's many things you can do. LinkedIn, I think you're absolutely right. My LinkedIn wasn't great for a quite long period of time. And you do learn, there's quite a few things to, to change. The simple thing, like a photo, right? You don't have your Facebook picture on your [00:24:00] LinkedIn.

[00:24:00] Denise: [00:24:00] So yeah, if your profile picture is, um, is you drunk a wedding, you know, that's probably not appropriate. So this really needs to be representing you as a professional in your field. Um, but you know, you can be, you can be creative with it as well. So you can have your kind of, your LinkedIn banner, um, which he can make a bit more personal and say, you know, if you're looking for a marketing role, that could be your opportunity to kind of a show off some of your skills there. Um, so it's, yeah, really dependent on your industry, but, um, yeah, it's really important that it's up to date, that it definitely, um, correlates with your CV as well. But it doesn't need to be a kind of direct copy and paste of your CV. Obviously LinkedIn is social media. It's a public platform, so you wouldn't necessarily want all of that information, um, from your CV on your LinkedIn profile. So you do have to be more careful there.

[00:24:55] David: [00:24:55] And on the subject of other social, it's probably worthwhile taking if [00:25:00] you're applying for a role, taking a review of your other social channels, and maybe censoring or tidying up some stuff to make sure that there's nothing available that might not reflect you in the best light.

[00:25:17] Denise: [00:25:17] Yeah, yes, yeah. So when I, when I, um, have managed graduate schemes in the past, um, you know, we have had to have some difficult conversations with people, um, because of things we found on, on social media platforms.

[00:25:31] So. Um, yeah. It's just, yeah, definitely having a little bit of an audit and lock, it, just lock it down as much as possible. Um, you know, I don't even have my surname on my own social media channels because they really want to be found by anyone else. I, um, yeah, just make sure it's, it's not anything that's going to be incriminating.

[00:25:53] David: [00:25:53] Wise words. Where can people find you?

[00:25:58] Denise: [00:25:58] So people could find me [00:26:00] on LinkedIn is linkedin.com and it's Denise hyphen Pike, or my website is www.thecvclinic.co.uk. Um, I'm also on Facebook as The CV Clinic and Instagram as thecvclinic.co.uk.

[00:26:19] David: [00:26:19] Perfect. So if anyone's looking for some great advice on their next career move and how to be successful with their CV and with applications, um, suggest getting contact with you via those channels, we'll make sure we've got links to all of your social and to the website, etc, on our, on our website as well, so that people can find you quite easily if you're watching or listening to this.

[00:26:46] Denise: [00:26:46] Great. Cool. Thank you.

[00:26:48] David: [00:26:48] Really great stuff. It's been great to talk to you. [00:27:00]